This is a pressing question for many people who are working on hho hydrogen cells. Winter is fast approaching, and still no breakthrough on how to keep our hho hydrogen generators from freezing. We need to figure this out and pronto, or we won’t be able to use our hho generators until spring thaw. So, how will keep the water from turning to ice and freezing the housing, cracking it wide open? Let’s face it, folks. The answer could be just as complicated as passing the 2008 CPA Board Exam!
Some people have used regular automotive antifreeze, which naturally doesn’t freeze but also doesn’t make as much hho gas. Others have added methanol or ethanol alcohol to the units. The problem is that it is hard to keep enough alcohol in the water if your hho unit is hooked up with vacuum and the temperature of the water gets very high during operation. This can cause alcohol to evaporate off, and the lower concentrations can allow the hydrogen generator to freeze at night or when sitting.
Others claim that high levels of electrolyte will stop the generator or lines from filling with ice. I hope to test that later on this year. Without trying a few things after temperatures go below freezing, we won’t know for sure which methods work and which don’t. Hopefully we will be able to stop hho hydrogen generators from freezing and continue to use them to get better fuel mileage all winter.
The solution is simple…use Blue Beaver Beer! ;o)
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HUH?!
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Tammy : Good idea! I’ll have to try that. Almost seems like a waste of beer though…
Canucklehead : You know, the top secret hydrogen devices I have attached to my vehicles.
LOL that’s like the ultimate in long tail keywords I think.
Q: How can you tell that an hho hydrogen generator is running well?
A: He’s 10 yards in front of your refrigerator.
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I apologize that this has nothing what so ever to do with your post but I just realized that Jean Luc Picard is one of your most vocal commenters. Wow. Maybe I should promote your beer on my site. Spock might start leaving me comments….
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Lisa: You found me out
I think it’s kind of funny, but some people have actually been trying to give me tips on keeping the units from freezing. As you know, that isn’t what I’m up to.
Petra: Haven’t heard from Jean-Luc Picard lately. He’s probably busy negotiating with aliens and whatnot. Check out his site; it’s in our blogroll.
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In my next life I am totally coming back as a burly man and this will sooo come in handy. lol
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It’s these vital things we need to know!
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Corrina: I really can’t imagine you burly
Jean-Luc: Hope things are still going well with that ambassador…
I must admit, I don’t know what you need the H(2)O for.
You may want to try denatured alcohol, I was told that it will not have as much of a problem with it evaporating. never tried it though
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Great info – keep up the great work.
Isnt HHO supposed to be H20?
If you are using electrolysis to generate the hydrogen, add salt to the water. It will lower the freezing point of the water and may improve the efficiency of the hydrogen generation.
why not use rv antifreere?
Several sights say to use windshield wiper fluid in your hydrogen booster, not anti-freeze, because anti-freeze won’t produce that much hydrogen. I am going to test the windshield wiper fluid on my work bench to see how much hydrogen it will produce. I am only going to leave it on for a few seconds, because I am not sure if it will produce some kind of toxic fums.
On another site, a guy said that there is room in the top of booster to allow for freezing, and that the heat generated by the plates when they are switched on, will melt the ice quickly as you worm up your car. So I am going to try to use the windshield wiper fluid, and see if I can keep my hydrogen boosters working all winter.
Kevin
i have been tpld that there is a thing called heat, its used to dry up water in your engine, im not sure what it is but it can be added to the water and will keep it from freezing without any effects on hho production.
Well I too would like to know what is the best way to keep the hho unit from freezing, washer fluid is just water with about 10 to 20 % rubbing alcohol, and heet is pure denaturated alcohol. Don’t know, but rember if you add to your solution, increasing the electrolyte content, you are going to pull more amps and possibly over heat after a short time of running and put too much strain on the alternator. Be carefull! you don’t want to have to be replacing an alternator because of an overload, somee of these vehicles have expensive parts! a caddy is looking at as least $200+ !!!
I’m looking into a dry cell unit and thinking about a very small block to keep the water luke warm while the vehicle is sitting over nite. maybe even a electral cords used to keep pipes from freezing, don’t know the current draw on these, but maybe a small 100 watt inverter and a auxillary battery if needed to maintain it when your not parked near a power sorce. Keep the ideas rolling in!
I have two units on two vehicles and I add roughly a tsp – 2 tsp of deicer windshield fluid to the units. Haven’t had any problems with freezing yet.
I am not sure but don’t you have to worry about corrosion if you use any of the tips so far. Not sure what the thing is made of but alcohol and electrolyte seems like it would cause a problem with some materials.
Awesome post!
I agree with Tammy:
The solution is simple…use Blue Beaver Beer! ;o)
hanks
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this is a complicated thing of which i know nothing about. its good to have people like you around.
I think the windsheild fluid sounds like best idea. I know the beer will freeze or become slush anyone who ever put a few beers in freezershould know that after they drink so many they forget about ones in freezer and drink ones in fridge. They are good to cool off but do not tatse the same as slush.
Hi. I am a long time reader. I wanted to say that I like your blog and the layout.
Where can I get blue beaver beer at? Or a keg of it. Or maybe just a t-shirt. Off to AA.
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Where can I get blue beer at? Or a keg of it? Maybe just a t-shirt. Off to AA.
haris last blog post..Is Wealthy Affiliate a Scam?
Hi, where can I find the latest updates on this issue of non freezing fuel cells?
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can anyone verify that Sarahs comment about adding deicer windshield fluid works? What temp was it good until also? some of us canadians endure some crazy temperatures up here.
Okay, I read it twice and I still don’t understand it. I guess since I live in Florida – I don’t have to understand it.
I will be a scientist someday and I will figure out this problem. I’ll get back to this article and post a comment for a solution.
I use antifreeze, time to switch I suspose..
use sale, park in a heated garage, and you could also design your own electric heater unit that ran off an auxiliary battery. I don’t think many people have thought about this problem. Not seen it addressed in any of the kit materials I’ve read. Nothing in the Stanley Meyer patents to keep water from freezing.
Great your captcha didn’t work and erased my entire comment.
Ok, freezing issues….
I’ve been building, researching, and selling various hho cell designs for quite awhile now, and these are some of my thoughts/ findings/research/etc, for whatever they are worth.
Salt is an absolute no-no, as is anything else that contains chlorine atoms/ions. The chlorine will absolutely rip into your stainless steel electrodes (and most others as well) and corrode the cell into a very early grave. If you are running cells based on a full strength baking soda solution/electrolyte, you are good down to maybe 20 degrees F (I had one freeze and crack last week at 15degrees). If you are running full strength sodium hydroxide, you should be good down to quite a bit colder than that. Full strength sulfuric acid electrolytes can tolerate down to zero and lower. Denatured alcohol will eventually vaporize out and cause failure when you least expect it. And if you are using one of the cells out there that uses straight tap water, too bad, so sad. See below for my comments about heaters.
The real issue though is generally not with the cells themselves (at least the electrolyte catalyst ones); it’s with the bubblers and water based back-flash arrestors. They are usually straight tapwater based, and if they freeze up, they’ll block the hydrogen flow and pressurize the cells, leading to burst hydrogen cells in the best scenario, or potentially catastrophic hydrogen explosions and fire under your hood at worst. Fortunately, straight antifreeze in the bubbler is fine, as long as you have a variety of cell that does not pull water from the bubbler after shutoff and cooldown when the solution inside the cell cools and contracts and sucks water back over from the bubbler (many designs out there do this- some of mine do, some don’t). If you have a suck back variety cell, you can just fill your bubbler with the same strength electrolyte in your main cell to keep it from freezing (this can become a problem though, in that this can cause the electrolyte in the actual cell to slowly get more concentrated, thus drawing more amperage, producing more hydrogen, and running a lot hotter – so there’s issues with this idea too, especially if you are not running full strength electrolyte to start with which CAN’T get more concentrated – in this case the extra electolyte will just precipitate out of the solution as crystals in the bottom of the cell). Yes, there’s a lot to know about keeping these things running in top form
Which leads us to heaters. The easiest thing to do is simply go buy heat tape/cord for plumbing pipes, the variety that turns on automatically when the temp gets low enough (built in thermostat). Just make sure the cord’s rated temperature isn’t higher than whatever temp your cell already runs at -many cells run in the neighborhood of 180+ degrees (especially the baking soda ones). Then directly wrap your cells with the cord/tape. Then just make sure to plug in the heater cord overnight and/or every time you park anywhere for more than a few minutes.
If your cell is not one of the high temperature varieties, insulation can a good idea in the wintertime too, just to keep the cell warm while operating, and to likewise hold the cell’s heat in longer after shutdown (warm/hot cells generally/usually produce more hydrogen than cold ones). Don’t use it in non-freezing weather though – overheating could become a real issue. Check with your cell’s manufacturer about insulation just to be on the safe side.
So the short answer to a big question is…. there are different answers to different cell designs. Sorry… The only surefire answer to all of them is plumbers heat tape/cord that you plug in whenever the engine is not running.
This IS an issue for people all over the country, and I do address it in the kits I sell. I HAVE to! (I live in the mountains myself). Expect to see more and more manufacturers adressing it soon.
That’s my 2 cents worth. Hope it helps someone…
I am from Ireland and am having this problem. I used 50ml (about 2 teaspoons) of windscreen washer fluid. It did not work but also caused the electrolyte to foam vigourously. Then I used 1/8 volume of the cell of antifreeze. It was better but weak ice did form inside the cell. I have now used 1/4 volume of the cell of antifreeze and have had no formation of ice. However the production of hydrogen has dropped significantly whilst using both 1/8 and 1/4 volume of antifreeze and am now getting the same fuel economy as the car without the cell fitted. That is my experience of this so far and hope it is of help.
Mm, I agree with the salt point, and also the denatured alcohol. It is called rubbing alocohol here is Australia (and it is also called non-alcoholic beer, and variously as ‘pointless’, ’stupid’, and ‘a waste of money’
!). I think the real, long term solution is to put the question to the manufacturers – they’ll soon realize there is a market need and put more money, time and resources to bear on the problem than any of us have. Take it to the big guy!
Just to update my progress with running a hydrogen system in freezing temperatures. I used antifreeze and although ice did not form, there was very little hydrogen production and a high amount of corrosion on the plates inside the cell occurred. My advice to anyone with this problem is to empty the cell and disconnect it from the power source until the freezing conditions pass. I would really like to hear other peoples ideas though.
Im sorry but I have just used regular automobile anti-freeze. Worked okay I guess.
I still haven’t worked it out, I would have tried the elecrtrolyte but the danger there is that some people have worried about using high levels of electrolyte. Regular car antifreeze didn’t do a great job for me as I found that the levels of gas went way down. If you find a method, please do share.
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