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	<title>Comments on: How Do You Keep an HHO Hydrogen Generator From Freezing?</title>
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	<link>http://redneckbarandgrill.com/2008/09/15/how-do-you-keep-an-hho-hydrogen-generator-from-freezing/</link>
	<description>Beer, Friends, Food</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 19:09:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Kieran</title>
		<link>http://redneckbarandgrill.com/2008/09/15/how-do-you-keep-an-hho-hydrogen-generator-from-freezing/comment-page-1/#comment-29764</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redneckbarandgrill.com/?p=844#comment-29764</guid>
		<description>Just to update my progress with running a hydrogen system in freezing temperatures. I used antifreeze and although ice did not form, there was very little hydrogen production and a high amount of corrosion on the plates inside the cell occurred. My advice to anyone with this problem is to empty the cell and disconnect it from the power source until the freezing conditions pass. I would really like to hear other peoples ideas though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to update my progress with running a hydrogen system in freezing temperatures. I used antifreeze and although ice did not form, there was very little hydrogen production and a high amount of corrosion on the plates inside the cell occurred. My advice to anyone with this problem is to empty the cell and disconnect it from the power source until the freezing conditions pass. I would really like to hear other peoples ideas though.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Landry@Laser Diffraction</title>
		<link>http://redneckbarandgrill.com/2008/09/15/how-do-you-keep-an-hho-hydrogen-generator-from-freezing/comment-page-1/#comment-28854</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Landry@Laser Diffraction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redneckbarandgrill.com/?p=844#comment-28854</guid>
		<description>Mm, I agree with the salt point, and also the denatured alcohol. It is called rubbing alocohol here is Australia (and it is also called non-alcoholic beer, and variously as &#039;pointless&#039;, &#039;stupid&#039;, and &#039;a waste of money&#039; :-)!). I think the real, long term solution is to put the question to the manufacturers - they&#039;ll soon realize there is a market need and put more money, time and resources to bear on the problem than any of us have. Take it to the big guy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mm, I agree with the salt point, and also the denatured alcohol. It is called rubbing alocohol here is Australia (and it is also called non-alcoholic beer, and variously as &#8216;pointless&#8217;, &#8217;stupid&#8217;, and &#8216;a waste of money&#8217; <img src='http://redneckbarandgrill.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> !). I think the real, long term solution is to put the question to the manufacturers &#8211; they&#8217;ll soon realize there is a market need and put more money, time and resources to bear on the problem than any of us have. Take it to the big guy!</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran</title>
		<link>http://redneckbarandgrill.com/2008/09/15/how-do-you-keep-an-hho-hydrogen-generator-from-freezing/comment-page-1/#comment-27105</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 02:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redneckbarandgrill.com/?p=844#comment-27105</guid>
		<description>I am from Ireland and am having this problem. I used 50ml (about 2 teaspoons) of windscreen washer fluid. It did not work but also caused the electrolyte to foam vigourously. Then I used 1/8 volume of the cell of antifreeze. It was better but weak ice did form inside the cell. I have now used 1/4 volume of the cell of antifreeze and have had no formation of ice. However the production of hydrogen has dropped significantly whilst using both 1/8 and 1/4 volume of antifreeze and am now getting the same fuel economy as the car without the cell fitted. That is my experience of this so far and hope it is of help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am from Ireland and am having this problem. I used 50ml (about 2 teaspoons) of windscreen washer fluid. It did not work but also caused the electrolyte to foam vigourously. Then I used 1/8 volume of the cell of antifreeze. It was better but weak ice did form inside the cell. I have now used 1/4 volume of the cell of antifreeze and have had no formation of ice. However the production of hydrogen has dropped significantly whilst using both 1/8 and 1/4 volume of antifreeze and am now getting the same fuel economy as the car without the cell fitted. That is my experience of this so far and hope it is of help.</p>
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		<title>By: cowboy tim</title>
		<link>http://redneckbarandgrill.com/2008/09/15/how-do-you-keep-an-hho-hydrogen-generator-from-freezing/comment-page-1/#comment-26185</link>
		<dc:creator>cowboy tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redneckbarandgrill.com/?p=844#comment-26185</guid>
		<description>Ok, freezing issues.... 

I&#039;ve been building, researching, and selling various hho cell designs for quite awhile now, and these are some of my thoughts/ findings/research/etc, for whatever they are worth. 

Salt is an absolute no-no, as is anything else that contains chlorine atoms/ions. The chlorine will absolutely rip into your stainless steel electrodes (and most others as well) and corrode the cell into a very early grave. If you are running cells based on a full strength baking soda solution/electrolyte, you are good down to maybe 20 degrees F (I had one freeze and crack last week at 15degrees). If you are running full strength sodium hydroxide, you should be good down to  quite a bit colder than that. Full strength sulfuric acid electrolytes can tolerate down to zero and lower. Denatured alcohol will eventually vaporize out and cause failure when you least expect it. And if you are using one of the cells out there that uses straight tap water, too bad, so sad.  See below for my comments about heaters.

The real issue though is generally not with the cells themselves (at least the electrolyte catalyst ones); it&#039;s with the bubblers and water based back-flash arrestors. They are usually straight tapwater based, and if they freeze up, they&#039;ll block the hydrogen flow and pressurize the cells, leading to burst hydrogen cells in the best scenario, or potentially catastrophic hydrogen explosions and fire under your hood at worst. Fortunately, straight antifreeze in the bubbler is fine, as long as you have a variety of cell that does not pull water from the bubbler after shutoff and cooldown  when the solution inside the cell cools and contracts and sucks water back over from the bubbler (many designs out there do this- some of mine do, some don&#039;t). If you have a suck back variety cell, you can just fill your bubbler with the same strength electrolyte in your main cell to keep it from freezing (this can become a problem though, in that this can cause the electrolyte in the actual cell to slowly get more concentrated, thus drawing more amperage, producing more hydrogen, and running a lot hotter - so there&#039;s issues with this idea too, especially if you are not running full strength electrolyte to start with which CAN&#039;T get more concentrated - in this case the extra electolyte will just precipitate out of the solution as crystals in the bottom of the cell). Yes, there&#039;s a lot to know about keeping these things running in top form :-)

Which leads us to heaters. The easiest thing to do is simply go buy heat tape/cord for plumbing pipes, the variety that turns on automatically when the temp gets low enough (built in thermostat). Just make sure the cord&#039;s rated temperature isn&#039;t higher than whatever temp your cell already runs at -many cells run in the neighborhood of 180+ degrees (especially the baking soda ones). Then directly wrap your cells with the cord/tape. Then just make sure to plug in the heater cord overnight and/or every time you park anywhere for more than a few minutes. 

If your cell is not one of the high temperature varieties, insulation can a good idea in the wintertime too, just to keep the cell warm while operating, and to likewise hold the cell&#039;s heat in longer after shutdown (warm/hot cells generally/usually produce more hydrogen than cold ones). Don&#039;t use it in non-freezing weather though - overheating could become a real issue. Check with your cell&#039;s manufacturer about insulation just to be on the safe side.

So the short answer to a big question is.... there are different answers to different cell designs. Sorry... The only surefire answer to all of them is plumbers heat tape/cord that you plug in whenever the engine is not running. 

This IS an issue for people all over the country, and I do address it in the kits I sell. I HAVE to! (I live in the mountains myself). Expect to see more and more manufacturers adressing it soon. 

That&#039;s my 2 cents worth. Hope it helps someone...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, freezing issues&#8230;. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been building, researching, and selling various hho cell designs for quite awhile now, and these are some of my thoughts/ findings/research/etc, for whatever they are worth. </p>
<p>Salt is an absolute no-no, as is anything else that contains chlorine atoms/ions. The chlorine will absolutely rip into your stainless steel electrodes (and most others as well) and corrode the cell into a very early grave. If you are running cells based on a full strength baking soda solution/electrolyte, you are good down to maybe 20 degrees F (I had one freeze and crack last week at 15degrees). If you are running full strength sodium hydroxide, you should be good down to  quite a bit colder than that. Full strength sulfuric acid electrolytes can tolerate down to zero and lower. Denatured alcohol will eventually vaporize out and cause failure when you least expect it. And if you are using one of the cells out there that uses straight tap water, too bad, so sad.  See below for my comments about heaters.</p>
<p>The real issue though is generally not with the cells themselves (at least the electrolyte catalyst ones); it&#8217;s with the bubblers and water based back-flash arrestors. They are usually straight tapwater based, and if they freeze up, they&#8217;ll block the hydrogen flow and pressurize the cells, leading to burst hydrogen cells in the best scenario, or potentially catastrophic hydrogen explosions and fire under your hood at worst. Fortunately, straight antifreeze in the bubbler is fine, as long as you have a variety of cell that does not pull water from the bubbler after shutoff and cooldown  when the solution inside the cell cools and contracts and sucks water back over from the bubbler (many designs out there do this- some of mine do, some don&#8217;t). If you have a suck back variety cell, you can just fill your bubbler with the same strength electrolyte in your main cell to keep it from freezing (this can become a problem though, in that this can cause the electrolyte in the actual cell to slowly get more concentrated, thus drawing more amperage, producing more hydrogen, and running a lot hotter &#8211; so there&#8217;s issues with this idea too, especially if you are not running full strength electrolyte to start with which CAN&#8217;T get more concentrated &#8211; in this case the extra electolyte will just precipitate out of the solution as crystals in the bottom of the cell). Yes, there&#8217;s a lot to know about keeping these things running in top form <img src='http://redneckbarandgrill.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Which leads us to heaters. The easiest thing to do is simply go buy heat tape/cord for plumbing pipes, the variety that turns on automatically when the temp gets low enough (built in thermostat). Just make sure the cord&#8217;s rated temperature isn&#8217;t higher than whatever temp your cell already runs at -many cells run in the neighborhood of 180+ degrees (especially the baking soda ones). Then directly wrap your cells with the cord/tape. Then just make sure to plug in the heater cord overnight and/or every time you park anywhere for more than a few minutes. </p>
<p>If your cell is not one of the high temperature varieties, insulation can a good idea in the wintertime too, just to keep the cell warm while operating, and to likewise hold the cell&#8217;s heat in longer after shutdown (warm/hot cells generally/usually produce more hydrogen than cold ones). Don&#8217;t use it in non-freezing weather though &#8211; overheating could become a real issue. Check with your cell&#8217;s manufacturer about insulation just to be on the safe side.</p>
<p>So the short answer to a big question is&#8230;. there are different answers to different cell designs. Sorry&#8230; The only surefire answer to all of them is plumbers heat tape/cord that you plug in whenever the engine is not running. </p>
<p>This IS an issue for people all over the country, and I do address it in the kits I sell. I HAVE to! (I live in the mountains myself). Expect to see more and more manufacturers adressing it soon. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s my 2 cents worth. Hope it helps someone&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Conversion Vans</title>
		<link>http://redneckbarandgrill.com/2008/09/15/how-do-you-keep-an-hho-hydrogen-generator-from-freezing/comment-page-1/#comment-25016</link>
		<dc:creator>Conversion Vans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redneckbarandgrill.com/?p=844#comment-25016</guid>
		<description>Great your captcha didn&#039;t work and erased my entire comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great your captcha didn&#8217;t work and erased my entire comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Conversion Vans</title>
		<link>http://redneckbarandgrill.com/2008/09/15/how-do-you-keep-an-hho-hydrogen-generator-from-freezing/comment-page-1/#comment-25015</link>
		<dc:creator>Conversion Vans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redneckbarandgrill.com/?p=844#comment-25015</guid>
		<description>use sale, park in a heated garage, and you could also design your own electric heater unit that ran off an auxiliary battery. I don&#039;t think many people have thought about this problem.  Not seen it addressed in any of the kit materials I&#039;ve read. Nothing in the Stanley Meyer patents to keep water from freezing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>use sale, park in a heated garage, and you could also design your own electric heater unit that ran off an auxiliary battery. I don&#8217;t think many people have thought about this problem.  Not seen it addressed in any of the kit materials I&#8217;ve read. Nothing in the Stanley Meyer patents to keep water from freezing.</p>
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		<title>By: John@brown leather sofa</title>
		<link>http://redneckbarandgrill.com/2008/09/15/how-do-you-keep-an-hho-hydrogen-generator-from-freezing/comment-page-1/#comment-22846</link>
		<dc:creator>John@brown leather sofa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redneckbarandgrill.com/?p=844#comment-22846</guid>
		<description>I use antifreeze, time to switch I suspose..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use antifreeze, time to switch I suspose..</p>
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		<title>By: Gaga@Used Jet Ski</title>
		<link>http://redneckbarandgrill.com/2008/09/15/how-do-you-keep-an-hho-hydrogen-generator-from-freezing/comment-page-1/#comment-22082</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaga@Used Jet Ski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redneckbarandgrill.com/?p=844#comment-22082</guid>
		<description>I will be a scientist someday and I will figure out this problem. I&#039;ll get back to this article and post a comment for a solution. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will be a scientist someday and I will figure out this problem. I&#8217;ll get back to this article and post a comment for a solution. <img src='http://redneckbarandgrill.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Margo</title>
		<link>http://redneckbarandgrill.com/2008/09/15/how-do-you-keep-an-hho-hydrogen-generator-from-freezing/comment-page-1/#comment-21783</link>
		<dc:creator>Margo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redneckbarandgrill.com/?p=844#comment-21783</guid>
		<description>Okay, I read it twice and I still don&#039;t understand it.  I guess since I live in Florida - I don&#039;t have to understand it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I read it twice and I still don&#8217;t understand it.  I guess since I live in Florida &#8211; I don&#8217;t have to understand it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark from Free Annual Credit Report</title>
		<link>http://redneckbarandgrill.com/2008/09/15/how-do-you-keep-an-hho-hydrogen-generator-from-freezing/comment-page-1/#comment-21549</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark from Free Annual Credit Report</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redneckbarandgrill.com/?p=844#comment-21549</guid>
		<description>can anyone verify that Sarahs comment about adding deicer windshield fluid works? What temp was it good until also? some of us canadians endure some crazy temperatures up here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>can anyone verify that Sarahs comment about adding deicer windshield fluid works? What temp was it good until also? some of us canadians endure some crazy temperatures up here.</p>
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